So I went to two weddings this weekend. One of which I am confident that the couple has a solid relationship with the Lord and the other...not so much. It may have just been my perception, but what I observed was sad and it's something I've been noticing the past few years as I've gone to many, many weddings. I so look forward to Christian weddings! You can see love and 'pure' joy on the faces of everyone there, from the bride and groom to the random friends that are there. But at the weddings where you're pretty sure they are not Christians it just seems like a formality. Of course everyone is happy, but it's not the same kind of anticipation, joy, or excitement.
What I'm getting at is this, and this is a rather bold and possibly painful statement; those who do not know God don't really have the ability to love...I know, you think I'm out of my mind. You're saying, "Of course they love! People fall in love and get married." There are many outward acts that we would say are carried out because of love (in marriage and otherwise). For instance, commitment and compassion. I would argue that those things can be misconstrued as love. 1 John 4:7-8 says, "Dear friends, let us love one another for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." This would seem to back up what I'm proposing. I've always known this verse, but I don't know that I've ever taken it seriously because, come on, all people love...don't they?
9 comments:
tough subject. If you really analze that verse, it is rather vague wouldn't you say? Wouldn't you agree that your frame of reference stems from an efree interpreation and application of love? All love in its turest form is selfless and is from God. So can a non-Christian love? So if a Muslim mother loses a son for some reason and it breaks her heart, does she not love because it doesn't fit into our neatly constucted observations of how we define love and the package that comes with our paradigm? Of course she loves. All the more glory to God. The end of that verse is proclaimation of all that love are children of God. Is this mother not a child of God? The typical rebuttal will come with the mindset dealing with salvation, but I still say all are created in God's image and loved by him. Salvation and the ability to love are different issues. Is that fair to say? I think so.
I have seen Christiann marriages that are filled with that purity and excitment, but unfortuately, I have the stories of them ended in badly. What happened there?
Ghandi...did he love his people? Love the idea, but couldn't it be possible that this passage that you quoted isn't as specific as we make it out to be?
food for thought.
Let me add another thang...I know that this verse says, "everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God..."
Once again, could it be that our paradigm muddies a proper exegesis? I haven't looked up commentary on it, but I hear a resonnance with Romans that all know of God because of creation...
Mason, understand me, I love being an atagonist. I am not entirely sure I agree with what I write. But this is what makes one smarter, right? I hope so otherwise I am just a jerk.
Peace.
Exellent thoughts my friend! I agree with everything you said. I just love to ask questions and pose ideas...keep the arguments coming!
It excites me to be able to freely question and discuss and I love where you come from. I think this is the second time you've talked about the Efree and American point of view in arguing my comments.
Thanks bro!
ha, I have another comment. I'm all alone in a hotel in St. cloud and bored so here I go.
Now obviously, I might of stretched the knowing God thang. I don't like to water down that knowing because it is intimate. SO, there is a difference in the knowing and love. John writes that in previous verses before that one, but then he adds something that is unique to that specific passage that you quoted.
He wrote on about how we didn't love first. Love has a beginning and it is from God. From that all people ( if you believe this or not) have the capacity to experience love. Reason being, God is love, we are created in his image, so we have the capacity to love in part.
Love in part, in my opinion is the hing pin to this proposition that bring forth. Reason being, John further writes about perfected love. This is achieved in two aspects. One, salvation and knowing God. Two, the strongest love portrayed to us in Scripture for us, is kionia...fellowship. Which is a great spring board because he writes about love abiding in us if we love one another and God is maniefest in that.
So, yes all can love. But it is not perfected until...
ha...peace.
well, the paradigm we argue in isn't our fault...I fault in that as well. It is helpful to remember that the writers were Jewish and had an eastern paradigm, which happened to have a more universal and non-denomitional effect to their doctrine. That is hard for us because we are to logic based. If it doesn't fit in our structure and way of life, obviously then the writers meant it for us and others, well, might just be wrong. Or are they?
I like the comment about logic. That is very true. I obviously have little experience with the more-Eastern mindset, but experienced it a little in London when I met many muslims.
I could go either way on this subject though. I read further in 1 John after reading your post and I still think I have a reasonable basis for my original post, however I realize that I've never heard anyone else make that claim so I'm likely wrong, as much smarter people than I have tackled the subject...
here is another angle on what your saying Brandon.
What if all true love is from God, and because we all bear the image of God and enjoy his general grace, we can all reflect some small part of his grace and love to varying degrees. What we see in the life of a disciple of Christ, is an ability to better reflect the love of Christ, although even then, imperfectly.
I might also add that sometimes it seems that there is very little correspondence between real love and good theology.
Good thoughts, my friend. And well said. I like the last line. I think I may have heard Brandon say something like that before. And if not, it sounds like something he would say.
I have heard many counsalors, both christian and secular, comment on ability to love. In talking about marriage they have said that there are things that limit how much a peson can love. Example: if one or both view pornagraphy then their ablity to love has been limited as long as that is a part of their life (this was a specific example I heard) Many marriages today lack purity because our lives, christian or not, have become watered down by universalism and lack of truth by which to live by. It might be accurate to say that if we refect love from God because God is love and we know sin creates barriors between man and God then sin and lives choosing to live in sin will have less of an ability to REALLY love verses couples that have a strong relationship with God above their relationship with each other... just a thought on it all.
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